The new Binion's Horseshoe......

[darin]

Opened Thursday so I went down for the Grand Opening. For all the post and
press they gave I was expecting something more than was there.

They could not have done a WORSE job eliminating every game that came even
close to making a serious gamer happy. They switched the BJ to shoes, and
what few single decks that are left are the new bogus 6 to 5 BJ payouts that
the whole town has now adopted and the tourists just can't seem to grasp the
lunacy of.

Additionally, craps is min $5 and the line odd's are 3-9 depending on the
bet. It is true that they re-carpeted (like anyone cares?), but it
basically is a patch job of 100 square feet here and there. Beyond that
they did no remodeling except for thinning out games. They did enlarge the
poker room area by about 100 %.

Also, one of the last nice things they used to offer before they closed was
cheap food; primarily the burgers and steak sandwhiches for cheap (which
had a reputation of their own to us Las Vegan's) at the 2 snack bars on
either side of the casino. That has also been eliminated. Instead they
have chosen to offer fruit cups and cold sandwhiches @ retail prices.

I honestly can't think of one reason to patronize that place anymore. I'm
sure Benny would be rolling over in his grave if he knew how totally screwed
up his casino is now.

I did talk to mgmt. and they stated if enough people complained they would
change things. Of course, that could be a bunch of hooey, but I'll be the
first to put my 2 cents in to see if they can bring back just one ounce of
the old casino's traditions back.

[Mr. V]

"They did enlarge the poker room area by about 100 %."

There it is.

Poker is the Next Big Thing in casino gambling, thanks to the TV exposure.

I'm glad they got rid of a lot of their slots: good riddance.

roll dem bones

[Spoody]

I dont like the sound of the changes either, but is it possible the
insanely cheap food and the very good gaming odds were part of the
reason the place was bankrupt? My guess is these changes will only
make it worse and within 6 mos some of the old binions will return.

Post by darin
Opened Thursday so I went down for the Grand Opening. For all the post and
press they gave I was expecting something more than was there.
They could not have done a WORSE job eliminating every game that came even
close to making a serious gamer happy. They switched the BJ to shoes, and
what few single decks that are left are the new bogus 6 to 5 BJ payouts that
the whole town has now adopted and the tourists just can't seem to grasp the
lunacy of.
Additionally, craps is min $5 and the line odd's are 3-9 depending on the
bet. It is true that they re-carpeted (like anyone cares?), but it
basically is a patch job of 100 square feet here and there. Beyond that
they did no remodeling except for thinning out games. They did enlarge the
poker room area by about 100 %.
Also, one of the last nice things they used to offer before they closed was
cheap food; primarily the burgers and steak sandwhiches for cheap (which
had a reputation of their own to us Las Vegan's) at the 2 snack bars on
either side of the casino. That has also been eliminated. Instead they
I honestly can't think of one reason to patronize that place anymore. I'm
sure Benny would be rolling over in his grave if he knew how totally screwed
up his casino is now.
I did talk to mgmt. and they stated if enough people complained they would
change things. Of course, that could be a bunch of hooey, but I'll be the
first to put my 2 cents in to see if they can bring back just one ounce of
the old casino's traditions back.

[Don Olney (Mr. Don)]

the Golden Nugget is doing a hell of a buisness. No cheap food at this
place. If a joint is run right, looks good and has some attracion the
people will come.

Post by Spoody
I dont like the sound of the changes either, but is it possible the
insanely cheap food and the very good gaming odds were part of the
reason the place was bankrupt? My guess is these changes will only
make it worse and within 6 mos some of the old binions will return.

Post by darin
Opened Thursday so I went down for the Grand Opening. For all the post and
press they gave I was expecting something more than was there.
They could not have done a WORSE job eliminating every game that came even
close to making a serious gamer happy. They switched the BJ to shoes, and
what few single decks that are left are the new bogus 6 to 5 BJ payouts that
the whole town has now adopted and the tourists just can't seem to grasp the
lunacy of.
Additionally, craps is min $5 and the line odd's are 3-9 depending on the
bet. It is true that they re-carpeted (like anyone cares?), but it
basically is a patch job of 100 square feet here and there. Beyond that
they did no remodeling except for thinning out games. They did enlarge the
poker room area by about 100 %.
Also, one of the last nice things they used to offer before they closed was
cheap food; primarily the burgers and steak sandwhiches for cheap (which
had a reputation of their own to us Las Vegan's) at the 2 snack bars on
either side of the casino. That has also been eliminated. Instead they
I honestly can't think of one reason to patronize that place anymore. I'm
sure Benny would be rolling over in his grave if he knew how totally screwed
up his casino is now.
I did talk to mgmt. and they stated if enough people complained they would
change things. Of course, that could be a bunch of hooey, but I'll be the
first to put my 2 cents in to see if they can bring back just one ounce of
the old casino's traditions back.

[John Harkness]

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 08:17:24 -0700, "Don Olney (Mr. Don)"

Post by Don Olney (Mr. Don)
the Golden Nugget is doing a hell of a buisness. No cheap food at this
place. If a joint is run right, looks good and has some attracion the
people will come.

Yeah, but the appeal of Binion's was that it wasn't the Nugget -- the
appeal of the Nugget was that it was the deluxe glamour joint of
downtown. Binion's was lowdown and "old school" -- that was its
appeal. If that's no longer there to distinguish it, it's becomes much
less interesting. Take away the great snack bar, the good gaming odds
and the deli, and it's no better than Lady Luck or the Fremont.

John Harkness

Post by Don Olney (Mr. Don)

Post by Spoody
I dont like the sound of the changes either, but is it possible the
insanely cheap food and the very good gaming odds were part of the
reason the place was bankrupt? My guess is these changes will only
make it worse and within 6 mos some of the old binions will return.

Post by darin
Opened Thursday so I went down for the Grand Opening. For all the post and
press they gave I was expecting something more than was there.
They could not have done a WORSE job eliminating every game that came even
close to making a serious gamer happy. They switched the BJ to shoes, and
what few single decks that are left are the new bogus 6 to 5 BJ payouts that
the whole town has now adopted and the tourists just can't seem to grasp the
lunacy of.
Additionally, craps is min $5 and the line odd's are 3-9 depending on the
bet. It is true that they re-carpeted (like anyone cares?), but it
basically is a patch job of 100 square feet here and there. Beyond that
they did no remodeling except for thinning out games. They did enlarge the
poker room area by about 100 %.
Also, one of the last nice things they used to offer before they closed was
cheap food; primarily the burgers and steak sandwhiches for cheap (which
had a reputation of their own to us Las Vegan's) at the 2 snack bars on
either side of the casino. That has also been eliminated. Instead they
I honestly can't think of one reason to patronize that place anymore. I'm
sure Benny would be rolling over in his grave if he knew how totally screwed
up his casino is now.
I did talk to mgmt. and they stated if enough people complained they would
change things. Of course, that could be a bunch of hooey, but I'll be the
first to put my 2 cents in to see if they can bring back just one ounce of
the old casino's traditions back.

[Don Olney (Mr. Don)]

and the horseshoe did not make it. Be it Becky that ran the place down
or not, they were not getting the numbers in the door. The old time
player is not the target market any longer. Not enough of them to go
around. The local market is hitting the Stations Casinos hard. Better
comps. Better service and a cleaner place to play.
Sad but true, money drives the bottom line for these companies. I love
the poker world. I do not play any casino games. I wish the 'shoe could
have stayed the old style joint. It is a fact though, a table of 50
poker players will not pay the bills for a casino.

Post by John Harkness
On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 08:17:24 -0700, "Don Olney (Mr. Don)"

Post by Don Olney (Mr. Don)
the Golden Nugget is doing a hell of a buisness. No cheap food at this
place. If a joint is run right, looks good and has some attracion the
people will come.

Yeah, but the appeal of Binion's was that it wasn't the Nugget -- the
appeal of the Nugget was that it was the deluxe glamour joint of
downtown. Binion's was lowdown and "old school" -- that was its
appeal. If that's no longer there to distinguish it, it's becomes much
less interesting. Take away the great snack bar, the good gaming odds
and the deli, and it's no better than Lady Luck or the Fremont.
John Harkness

Post by Don Olney (Mr. Don)

Post by Spoody
I dont like the sound of the changes either, but is it possible the
insanely cheap food and the very good gaming odds were part of the
reason the place was bankrupt? My guess is these changes will only
make it worse and within 6 mos some of the old binions will return.

Post by darin
Opened Thursday so I went down for the Grand Opening. For all the post and
press they gave I was expecting something more than was there.
They could not have done a WORSE job eliminating every game that came even
close to making a serious gamer happy. They switched the BJ to shoes, and
what few single decks that are left are the new bogus 6 to 5 BJ payouts that
the whole town has now adopted and the tourists just can't seem to grasp the
lunacy of.
Additionally, craps is min $5 and the line odd's are 3-9 depending on the
bet. It is true that they re-carpeted (like anyone cares?), but it
basically is a patch job of 100 square feet here and there. Beyond that
they did no remodeling except for thinning out games. They did enlarge the
poker room area by about 100 %.
Also, one of the last nice things they used to offer before they closed was
cheap food; primarily the burgers and steak sandwhiches for cheap (which
had a reputation of their own to us Las Vegan's) at the 2 snack bars on
either side of the casino. That has also been eliminated. Instead they
I honestly can't think of one reason to patronize that place anymore. I'm
sure Benny would be rolling over in his grave if he knew how totally screwed
up his casino is now.
I did talk to mgmt. and they stated if enough people complained they would
change things. Of course, that could be a bunch of hooey, but I'll be the
first to put my 2 cents in to see if they can bring back just one ounce of
the old casino's traditions back.

[John Harkness]

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 09:01:33 -0700, "Don Olney (Mr. Don)"

Post by Don Olney (Mr. Don)
and the horseshoe did not make it. Be it Becky that ran the place down
or not, they were not getting the numbers in the door. The old time
player is not the target market any longer. Not enough of them to go
around. The local market is hitting the Stations Casinos hard. Better
comps. Better service and a cleaner place to play.
Sad but true, money drives the bottom line for these companies. I love
the poker world. I do not play any casino games. I wish the 'shoe could
have stayed the old style joint. It is a fact though, a table of 50
poker players will not pay the bills for a casino.

No argument -- I've said for years that what's killing downtown is the
local off-strip casinos.

It's odd that Becky couldn't make money in the place -- it was never
as empty as some of the downtown places that keep going, and often
quite crowded, and lord knows she wasn't spending money on
maintenance.

My argument is that slapping a coat of paint on the joint and killing
the 'Shoes distinctive features, like the snackbar and deli, isn't
going to add to the appeal. (She must have been the worst manager in
the world -- or, she had such a resentment of her father and her
brother that she set out to systematically destroy their legacy.)

There's no cheap food at the Nugget, but there's no "plastic wrapped
sandwiches", either. It's the class of downtown, and is presented
according. Binion's presented itself as an old-style gambling hall and
a chunk of Vegas history. Now it's a Harrah's and a rundown,
ill-maintained Harrah's at that. I mean, if you want the Harrah's
experience, you go to the Strip.

One of the peculiarities of Downtown is that the people who run the
places downtown have never seemed able to adapt to the times -- it's
not that they haven't suddenly become "theme casinos", but that aside
from the Nugget and, once, Binion's, none of the downtown casinos have
any particular identity. I happen to like the 4 Queens, mostly because
of the coffee shop and I get a rate there, but it does nothing to
distinguish itself from The Fremont or the Cal. (Well, the rooms are
bigger than at the Fremont....)

I speak as someone who likes downtown -- I like having everything
within a couple of blocks, and lots of low limit table games, and even
some real one and two deck blackjack games. But I have fairly Spartan
requirements when it comes to Vegas hotel rooms, and if I come down
for a weekend with the GF, I don't stay downtown, I stay at Paris,
which she thinks is the funniest place in the world.

But unless you like a better price on your gambling, there's not much
reason to come downtown, and the owners have completely failed at
adjusting to that reality. Harrah's stripping out what was distinctive
about the joint seems to be a continuation of that philosophy.

John Harkness

Post by Don Olney (Mr. Don)

Post by John Harkness
On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 08:17:24 -0700, "Don Olney (Mr. Don)"

Post by Don Olney (Mr. Don)
the Golden Nugget is doing a hell of a buisness. No cheap food at this
place. If a joint is run right, looks good and has some attracion the
people will come.

Yeah, but the appeal of Binion's was that it wasn't the Nugget -- the
appeal of the Nugget was that it was the deluxe glamour joint of
downtown. Binion's was lowdown and "old school" -- that was its
appeal. If that's no longer there to distinguish it, it's becomes much
less interesting. Take away the great snack bar, the good gaming odds
and the deli, and it's no better than Lady Luck or the Fremont.
John Harkness

Post by Don Olney (Mr. Don)

Post by Spoody
I dont like the sound of the changes either, but is it possible the
insanely cheap food and the very good gaming odds were part of the
reason the place was bankrupt? My guess is these changes will only
make it worse and within 6 mos some of the old binions will return.

Post by darin
Opened Thursday so I went down for the Grand Opening. For all the post and
press they gave I was expecting something more than was there.
They could not have done a WORSE job eliminating every game that came even
close to making a serious gamer happy. They switched the BJ to shoes, and
what few single decks that are left are the new bogus 6 to 5 BJ payouts that
the whole town has now adopted and the tourists just can't seem to grasp the
lunacy of.
Additionally, craps is min $5 and the line odd's are 3-9 depending on the
bet. It is true that they re-carpeted (like anyone cares?), but it
basically is a patch job of 100 square feet here and there. Beyond that
they did no remodeling except for thinning out games. They did enlarge the
poker room area by about 100 %.
Also, one of the last nice things they used to offer before they closed was
cheap food; primarily the burgers and steak sandwhiches for cheap (which
had a reputation of their own to us Las Vegan's) at the 2 snack bars on
either side of the casino. That has also been eliminated. Instead they
I honestly can't think of one reason to patronize that place anymore. I'm
sure Benny would be rolling over in his grave if he knew how totally screwed
up his casino is now.
I did talk to mgmt. and they stated if enough people complained they would
change things. Of course, that could be a bunch of hooey, but I'll be the
first to put my 2 cents in to see if they can bring back just one ounce of
the old casino's traditions back.

[Irish Mike]

"I've said for years that what's killing downtown is the
local off-strip casinos."

This is an excellent point - but not understood by most people.

Irish Mike

Post by John Harkness
On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 09:01:33 -0700, "Don Olney (Mr. Don)"

Post by Don Olney (Mr. Don)
and the horseshoe did not make it. Be it Becky that ran the place down
or not, they were not getting the numbers in the door. The old time
player is not the target market any longer. Not enough of them to go
around. The local market is hitting the Stations Casinos hard. Better
comps. Better service and a cleaner place to play.
Sad but true, money drives the bottom line for these companies. I love
the poker world. I do not play any casino games. I wish the 'shoe could
have stayed the old style joint. It is a fact though, a table of 50
poker players will not pay the bills for a casino.

No argument -- I've said for years that what's killing downtown is the
local off-strip casinos.
It's odd that Becky couldn't make money in the place -- it was never
as empty as some of the downtown places that keep going, and often
quite crowded, and lord knows she wasn't spending money on
maintenance.
My argument is that slapping a coat of paint on the joint and killing
the 'Shoes distinctive features, like the snackbar and deli, isn't
going to add to the appeal. (She must have been the worst manager in
the world -- or, she had such a resentment of her father and her
brother that she set out to systematically destroy their legacy.)
There's no cheap food at the Nugget, but there's no "plastic wrapped
sandwiches", either. It's the class of downtown, and is presented
according. Binion's presented itself as an old-style gambling hall and
a chunk of Vegas history. Now it's a Harrah's and a rundown,
ill-maintained Harrah's at that. I mean, if you want the Harrah's
experience, you go to the Strip.
One of the peculiarities of Downtown is that the people who run the
places downtown have never seemed able to adapt to the times -- it's
not that they haven't suddenly become "theme casinos", but that aside
from the Nugget and, once, Binion's, none of the downtown casinos have
any particular identity. I happen to like the 4 Queens, mostly because
of the coffee shop and I get a rate there, but it does nothing to
distinguish itself from The Fremont or the Cal. (Well, the rooms are
bigger than at the Fremont....)
I speak as someone who likes downtown -- I like having everything
within a couple of blocks, and lots of low limit table games, and even
some real one and two deck blackjack games. But I have fairly Spartan
requirements when it comes to Vegas hotel rooms, and if I come down
for a weekend with the GF, I don't stay downtown, I stay at Paris,
which she thinks is the funniest place in the world.
But unless you like a better price on your gambling, there's not much
reason to come downtown, and the owners have completely failed at
adjusting to that reality. Harrah's stripping out what was distinctive
about the joint seems to be a continuation of that philosophy.
John Harkness

Post by Don Olney (Mr. Don)

Post by John Harkness
On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 08:17:24 -0700, "Don Olney (Mr. Don)"

Post by Don Olney (Mr. Don)
the Golden Nugget is doing a hell of a buisness. No cheap food at this
place. If a joint is run right, looks good and has some attracion the
people will come.

Yeah, but the appeal of Binion's was that it wasn't the Nugget -- the
appeal of the Nugget was that it was the deluxe glamour joint of
downtown. Binion's was lowdown and "old school" -- that was its
appeal. If that's no longer there to distinguish it, it's becomes much
less interesting. Take away the great snack bar, the good gaming odds
and the deli, and it's no better than Lady Luck or the Fremont.
John Harkness

Post by Don Olney (Mr. Don)

Post by Spoody
I dont like the sound of the changes either, but is it possible the
insanely cheap food and the very good gaming odds were part of the
reason the place was bankrupt? My guess is these changes will only
make it worse and within 6 mos some of the old binions will return.

Post by darin
Opened Thursday so I went down for the Grand Opening. For all the post and
press they gave I was expecting something more than was there.
They could not have done a WORSE job eliminating every game that came even
close to making a serious gamer happy. They switched the BJ to shoes, and
what few single decks that are left are the new bogus 6 to 5 BJ payouts that
the whole town has now adopted and the tourists just can't seem to grasp the
lunacy of.
Additionally, craps is min $5 and the line odd's are 3-9 depending on the
bet. It is true that they re-carpeted (like anyone cares?), but it
basically is a patch job of 100 square feet here and there. Beyond that
they did no remodeling except for thinning out games. They did enlarge the
poker room area by about 100 %.
Also, one of the last nice things they used to offer before they closed was
cheap food; primarily the burgers and steak sandwhiches for cheap (which
had a reputation of their own to us Las Vegan's) at the 2 snack bars on
either side of the casino. That has also been eliminated. Instead they
I honestly can't think of one reason to patronize that place anymore.

I'm

Post by John Harkness

Post by Don Olney (Mr. Don)

Post by John Harkness

Post by Don Olney (Mr. Don)

Post by Spoody

Post by darin
sure Benny would be rolling over in his grave if he knew how totally screwed
up his casino is now.
I did talk to mgmt. and they stated if enough people complained they would
change things. Of course, that could be a bunch of hooey, but I'll be the
first to put my 2 cents in to see if they can bring back just one ounce of
the old casino's traditions back.

[Victoria]

We must remember just who owns the Horseshoe now. Harrahs, a
corporation known for bad games!
Being known for bad games does not make them completely stupid just
incompatible to knowledgeable people. I would guess that their
management in thinking about the Horseshoe made the decision
(correctly) that the place has one big famous thing going for it that
can bring in people, Poker. They inlarge the poker area, keep the
World Series and with the increase in wannabee poker pros, hopefully
fill the place up. When not playing poker the novices will be
surrounded by bad games and most of them do not know enough to know
they are bad. Sure many will just cross the street, but not all of
them.
So Harrahs will try to capitalize upon poker fame and make every other
bet in the place a bad bet.
If and when the poker craze ends or slows down, I would expect a huge
influx of bad EV machines to replace many poker tables and dealers.
Victoria

[Irish Mike]

Harrahs is one of the tightest, cheapest outfits in the gaming industry. I
used to be a regular in their Las Vegas poker room. Haven't set foot in the
place since they closed the poker room and screwed over the dealers - some
of whom had worked in that poker room for 20+ years.

Irish Mike

Post by Victoria
We must remember just who owns the Horseshoe now. Harrahs, a
corporation known for bad games!
Being known for bad games does not make them completely stupid just
incompatible to knowledgeable people. I would guess that their
management in thinking about the Horseshoe made the decision
(correctly) that the place has one big famous thing going for it that
can bring in people, Poker. They inlarge the poker area, keep the
World Series and with the increase in wannabee poker pros, hopefully
fill the place up. When not playing poker the novices will be
surrounded by bad games and most of them do not know enough to know
they are bad. Sure many will just cross the street, but not all of
them.
So Harrahs will try to capitalize upon poker fame and make every other
bet in the place a bad bet.
If and when the poker craze ends or slows down, I would expect a huge
influx of bad EV machines to replace many poker tables and dealers.
Victoria

[adam rapport]

Post by Irish Mike
Harrahs is one of the tightest, cheapest outfits in the gaming industry. I
used to be a regular in their Las Vegas poker room. Haven't set foot in the
place since they closed the poker room and screwed over the dealers - some
of whom had worked in that poker room for 20+ years.

Let me tell you somethings you may already know of HS before they were
shut
down. Nevada Gaming knew Nick (Becky's husband, an ex-felon) was
running the
place when it comes to high rollers. In fact, a guy i know beat them
up for
over 600K in 5 months which is one reason they shut his credit line.
HS has few high rollers i know of . Beside the Marshall guy who is in
Nevada gaming's Blackbook, i have not seen many and to lose 600K to
one person is No
No. One one trip this guy had a lost 100K and he only paid 80K to
settle (standard in vegas) and when it was paid in cash, the envelope
later
containing the 80K mysteriously disappeared. Now, we all know the
binions-behnen are an honest bunch , don't we?
Further, whenever my friend was on a serious winning streak, young
Benny would
push some whores onto him. Warren, the poker room manager and Benny
would go
round up the whores .
Another thing, my friend also beat up young Benny and Nick (his dad)
at
no-limit hold-em, one on one, for over 150K . Guess who bankrolled
Benny's and
Nick's games? Why, they just took chips from the cage!
Now did you also know most of HS recent hires were ex-cons? I know
there's a
law that says you may not hire ex-felons in gaming but there's another
law
the HS took advantage of , by hiring ex-felons, the government pays
half of
their wages, something to do with rehabilating them into soceity.
How one law outweighs the other, i have no idea.

[Jay Jerome]

Post by adam rapport

Post by Irish Mike
Harrahs is one of the tightest, cheapest outfits in the gaming industry. I
used to be a regular in their Las Vegas poker room. Haven't set foot in the
place since they closed the poker room and screwed over the dealers - some
of whom had worked in that poker room for 20+ years.

Let me tell you somethings you may already know of HS before they were
shut
down. Nevada Gaming knew Nick (Becky's husband, an ex-felon) was
running the
place when it comes to high rollers. In fact, a guy i know beat them
up for
over 600K in 5 months which is one reason they shut his credit line.
HS has few high rollers i know of . Beside the Marshall guy who is in
Nevada gaming's Blackbook, i have not seen many and to lose 600K to
one person is No
No. One one trip this guy had a lost 100K and he only paid 80K to
settle (standard in vegas) and when it was paid in cash, the envelope
later
containing the 80K mysteriously disappeared. Now, we all know the
binions-behnen are an honest bunch , don't we?
Further, whenever my friend was on a serious winning streak, young
Benny would
push some whores onto him. Warren, the poker room manager and Benny
would go
round up the whores .
Another thing, my friend also beat up young Benny and Nick (his dad)
at
no-limit hold-em, one on one, for over 150K . Guess who bankrolled
Benny's and
Nick's games? Why, they just took chips from the cage!
Now did you also know most of HS recent hires were ex-cons? I know
there's a
law that says you may not hire ex-felons in gaming but there's another
law
the HS took advantage of , by hiring ex-felons, the government pays
half of
their wages, something to do with rehabilating them into soceity.
How one law outweighs the other, i have no idea.

There were lots of reports in the papers about them mickey-mousing the
cage in the months before they shut them down. I think investigators
from the gaming board cited them for being short on the required
minimums a few times... and then there was that brouhaha with Stupik
when he tried to cash out $250,000 worth of $500,000 chips at the cage,
and retrieve some cash he had in a safe deposit box there...

Still, it's like a favorite soap opera that gets taken off the air...
Have there been any Becky-Benny-Nick sightings in Las Vegas since they
sold the casino? Or are they permanently out of sight?

JJ

[Bruce Meierkord]

and then there was that brouhaha with Stupik
when he tried to cash out $250,000 worth of $500,000 chips at the cage


He had half of a chip?!?

[TeddysDad]

Ya gotta understand, that this is perfecctally understood on the
rec.gambling.poker group.............

In article <MVGcc.2013$***@fed1read05>, ***@hotmail.com
says...

Post by Jay Jerome
and then there was that brouhaha with Stupik
when he tried to cash out $250,000 worth of $500,000 chips at the cage
He had half of a chip?!?

[Jay Jerome]

Post by Jay Jerome
and then there was that brouhaha with Stupik
when he tried to cash out $250,000 worth of $500,000 chips at the cage
He had half of a chip?!?

Sorry... that's $250,000 worth of $500 chips...
JJ

[Daniel Barton]

Post by Jay Jerome
Sorry... that's $250,000 worth of $500 chips...
JJ

I thought it was $250,000 worth of $5,000 chips...

Daniel

[Jim Williams]

You just struck a nerve with the 6:5 blackjack statement. I was on the MS gulf
coast recently and while walking through the blackjack table area of one of the
casinos...found a 6:5 blackjack table. Why would anyone sit down at a 6:5
table when they could be getting paid 3:2??? For that matter why would anyone
sit and play at a table with a constant shuffling machine, when there is a shoe
game right next to them, at the same limits, with the same rules? If everyone
would just refuse to play this crap they would not last long.

[Big Ed]

Post by Jim Williams
You just struck a nerve with the 6:5 blackjack statement. I was on the MS gulf
coast recently and while walking through the blackjack table area of one of the
casinos...found a 6:5 blackjack table. Why would anyone sit down at a 6:5
table when they could be getting paid 3:2??? For that matter why would anyone
sit and play at a table with a constant shuffling machine, when there is a shoe
game right next to them, at the same limits, with the same rules? If everyone
would just refuse to play this crap they would not last long.

What is the old saying? No one ever went broke underestimating the
intelligence of the American public.

Big Ed

[Seeker21]

Post by darin

Post by Jim Williams
You just struck a nerve with the 6:5 blackjack statement. I was on the MS

gulf

Post by Jim Williams
coast recently and while walking through the blackjack table area of one

of the

Post by Jim Williams
casinos...found a 6:5 blackjack table. Why would anyone sit down at a 6:5
table when they could be getting paid 3:2??? For that matter why would

anyone

Post by Jim Williams
sit and play at a table with a constant shuffling machine, when there is a

shoe

Post by Jim Williams
game right next to them, at the same limits, with the same rules? If

everyone

Post by Jim Williams
would just refuse to play this crap they would not last long.

What is the old saying? No one ever went broke underestimating the
intelligence of the American public.
Big Ed

Correct, Big Ed. It's commonly attributed to H. L. Mencken.


Seeker

[Vandeman]

Post by Big Ed
What is the old saying? No one ever went broke underestimating the
intelligence of the American public.

Enron.

[Wingman]

Post by Vandeman

Post by Big Ed
What is the old saying? No one ever went broke underestimating the
intelligence of the American public.

Enron.

Enron didn't underestimate the intelligence of the American public.
They radically overestimated their own intelligence. They figured
that since they were so smart the rules didn't apply to them.

[Rusty Martin]

Post by Wingman
Enron didn't underestimate the intelligence of the American public.

Enron perfectly estimated the intelligence of Arthur Anderson.




Rusty Martin

"The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads
nothing but newspapers."

--- Thomas Jefferson

[Wingman]

Post by Rusty Martin

Post by Wingman
Enron didn't underestimate the intelligence of the American public.

Enron perfectly estimated the intelligence of Arthur Anderson.

What's better is they perfectly estimated the greed of the managing
partner of AA.

Post by Rusty Martin
Rusty Martin
"The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads
nothing but newspapers."
--- Thomas Jefferson

[Dean]

Post by Jim Williams
You just struck a nerve with the 6:5 blackjack statement. I was on the MS
gulf coast recently and while walking through the blackjack table area of one
of thecasinos...found a 6:5 blackjack table. Why would anyone sit down at a
6:5 table when they could be getting paid 3:2???

BECAUSE "single-deck games are better than multi-deck games".

Post by Jim Williams
For that matter why would anyone sit and play at a table with a continuous
shuffling machine, when there is a shoe game right next to them, at the same
limits, with the same rules?

BECAUSE "shuffle breaks are annoying. I want speed, and with CSMs
there are no annoying breaks in the action".

Post by Jim Williams
If everyone would just refuse to play this crap they would not last long.

Sorry, but not everyone is as intelligent as you. Casinos don't want
knowledgeable players. Since casinos have pretty much beaten card
counters, their next "enemy" is the basic strategy player who plays
with a house edge of "only" .5%
Two ways of beating basic strategy players:
Make the rules worse to increase the house edge (6:5 BJ)
Speed up the game to make more money with the same house edge (CSMs

[Rick]

Post by Dean
Make the rules worse to increase the house edge (6:5 BJ)
Speed up the game to make more money with the same house edge (CSMs

Third way - make the limit so high that they go bust after a small
number of hands. (i.e. how long you gonna last with a $200-400
bankroll at a $25 table? )

[Big Ed]

Post by Rick

Post by Dean
Make the rules worse to increase the house edge (6:5 BJ)
Speed up the game to make more money with the same house edge (CSMs

Third way - make the limit so high that they go bust after a small
number of hands. (i.e. how long you gonna last with a $200-400
bankroll at a $25 table? )

This is one that is overlooked by most people. When forced to over bet your
bankroll, or if you choose to over bet your bankroll. you have increased
your chances of quitting a loser.

Big Ed

[Randy Hudson]

When forced to over bet your bankroll, or if you choose to over bet your
bankroll. you have increased your chances of quitting a loser.

However, for the basic strategy player over whom the house holds a small
advantage, you've also reduced the casino's expected profit from you,
assuming your stopping criteria is something like "play until I'm busted, or
I've played N hands," possibly with an adjunct of "or quit if I'm ahead at
least D units after M hands."

[Big Ed]

Post by Randy Hudson

When forced to over bet your bankroll, or if you choose to over bet your
bankroll. you have increased your chances of quitting a loser.

However, for the basic strategy player over whom the house holds a small
advantage, you've also reduced the casino's expected profit from you,
assuming your stopping criteria is something like "play until I'm busted, or
I've played N hands," possibly with an adjunct of "or quit if I'm ahead at
least D units after M hands."
--
Randy Hudson

When you go broke the house's small percentage has resulted in you losing
100% of your money.

Big Ed

[Seeker21]

Post by Big Ed

Post by Randy Hudson

When forced to over bet your bankroll, or if you choose to over bet your
bankroll. you have increased your chances of quitting a loser.

However, for the basic strategy player over whom the house holds a small
advantage, you've also reduced the casino's expected profit from you,
assuming your stopping criteria is something like "play until I'm busted,

or

Post by Randy Hudson
I've played N hands," possibly with an adjunct of "or quit if I'm ahead at
least D units after M hands."
--
Randy Hudson

When you go broke the house's small percentage has resulted in you losing
100% of your money.
Big Ed

Right, the house's gross win is the same -- and if an increase in the table
minimum or the player's bet level means that the house extracts that money from
the player in less time, then the profit is higher because expenses are lower
(if, for example, we prorate the dealer's salary over the house's results
against each player at the table).

If the player's approach is to quit after a specified number of hands, then the
player with a higher average bet will be expected to lose more.

Randy, I have the feeling I'm misunderstanding you. Would you explain? What
you wrote just doesn't compute.


Seekre

A flat-betting


Seeker

[Randy Hudson]

Post by Seeker21

Post by Randy Hudson

When forced to over bet your bankroll, or if you choose to over bet your
bankroll. you have increased your chances of quitting a loser.

[Randy Hudson wrote]

Post by Seeker21

Post by Randy Hudson
However, for the basic strategy player over whom the house holds a small
advantage, you've also reduced the casino's expected profit from you,
assuming your stopping criteria is something like "play until I'm
busted, or I've played N hands," possibly with an adjunct of "or quit if
I'm ahead at least D units after M hands."

If the player's approach is to quit after a specified number of hands, then the
player with a higher average bet will be expected to lose more.
Randy, I have the feeling I'm misunderstanding you. Would you explain? What
you wrote just doesn't compute.

I think I overstated the case; I think the result I gave applies if the
player has a "winning x units" quitting point, and/or if he has a "having
bet z dollars" quitting point, but not if his only quitting criteria are
going broke or having played y hands.

Assuming the player's bankroll is the same, raising the house minimum --
"forcing" him to bet more -- lowers the expected number of hands he plays,
and under some circumstances, the expected volume of wagers on which the
house gets its edge. He's more likely to go broke, just as Big Ed
mentioned, but his expected result conditioned on not going broke is
actually better.

Example: Assume player has bankroll of 2 units, and game pays even money but
house wins 3/5 of decisions, player 2/5. House edge is 20%.

Player comes in to play 5 hands or go broke. If the bet is 1 unit, he goes
broke if he loses first two hands, .36, or splits the first two and loses
the next two, .1728. His chance of going broke is .5328; his average result
when he doesn't go broke is a profit of over a third of his bankroll, and
his expected loss overall is .3742 of his bankroll.

If his bet is always 2 units, he goes broke if he loses the first hand,
or wins the first and loses the next two, with probabilities .6 and .144
respectively. His mean result if neither happens is that he more than
doubles his bankroll, and his overall EV is an expected loss of .4644 of his
bankroll.

If he also has a stopping criterion of "stop if I double my money," then in
the first case, he stops after 2 hands .16 more times, and stops after 4
hands .0768 more times, and his overall EV goes up by .05568 times his
bankroll, to an expected loss of .2974 times his bankroll.

In the second case, he always plays exactly one hand, with an expected loss
of .2 times his bankroll.

[rzik]

I live in Vegas. I refuse to play in any casino that puts in 6-5 bj.
If that means never playing Blackjack again, so it will be.
If everyone would have my attitude they would have to abandon this rip-off.

I have on occasion stood behind a 6-5 table and talked very loud about what
a rippoff
this game is. If I could get just one player to give it up, I have done my
job.

You would think that the floor people would try to toss me. But the reality
is they agree
with me that the game should not be there. You cannot continue to rip off
locals and
continue to have them come back. Eventually they learn they cannot win on
the game
and do not come back. The game is bad for long term business.

Post by Dean

Post by Jim Williams
You just struck a nerve with the 6:5 blackjack statement. I was on the MS
gulf coast recently and while walking through the blackjack table area of one
of thecasinos...found a 6:5 blackjack table. Why would anyone sit down at a
6:5 table when they could be getting paid 3:2???

BECAUSE "single-deck games are better than multi-deck games".

Post by Jim Williams
For that matter why would anyone sit and play at a table with a continuous
shuffling machine, when there is a shoe game right next to them, at the same
limits, with the same rules?

BECAUSE "shuffle breaks are annoying. I want speed, and with CSMs
there are no annoying breaks in the action".

Post by Jim Williams
If everyone would just refuse to play this crap they would not last long.

Sorry, but not everyone is as intelligent as you. Casinos don't want
knowledgeable players. Since casinos have pretty much beaten card
counters, their next "enemy" is the basic strategy player who plays
with a house edge of "only" .5%
Make the rules worse to increase the house edge (6:5 BJ)
Speed up the game to make more money with the same house edge (CSMs

[Dean]

Post by rzik
I live in Vegas. I refuse to play in any casino that puts in 6-5 bj.
If that means never playing Blackjack again, so it will be.

I'm sure that casinos would LOVE to get rid of Blackjack (with its
house edge of "only" .5%) and 6:5BJ (with it's house edge of "only"
2%) and replace the game with Carribean Stud Poker (house edge of 5%)
or slot machines (house edge of 10% and no labor costs).

Post by rzik
If everyone would have my attitude they would have to abandon this rip-off.

Casinos are probably not going to do that. If enough players feel
"forced" to play 6:5 BJ because 3:2 BJ is no longer available, they
will either come to accept 6:5 BJ (remember the days when a "BLACK
JACK" [Ace and Jack of clubs/spades] paid 2:1 on "regular" BJ? Players
came to accept Blackjack without 2:1 payoffs.) or just change to
another game.

Post by rzik
I have on occasion stood behind a 6-5 table and talked very loud about what
a rippoff
this game is. If I could get just one player to give it up, I have done my
job.

Why would players want to give up the game? "single deck games are
better than multi deck games"

[eric peter]

Post by darin
Opened Thursday so I went down for the Grand Opening. For all the post and
press they gave I was expecting something more than was there.
They could not have done a WORSE job eliminating every game that came even
close to making a serious gamer happy. They switched the BJ to shoes, and
what few single decks that are left are the new bogus 6 to 5 BJ payouts that
the whole town has now adopted and the tourists just can't seem to grasp the
lunacy of.
Additionally, craps is min $5 and the line odd's are 3-9 depending on the
bet. It is true that they re-carpeted (like anyone cares?), but it
basically is a patch job of 100 square feet here and there. Beyond that
they did no remodeling except for thinning out games. They did enlarge the
poker room area by about 100 %.
Also, one of the last nice things they used to offer before they closed was
cheap food; primarily the burgers and steak sandwhiches for cheap (which
had a reputation of their own to us Las Vegan's) at the 2 snack bars on
either side of the casino. That has also been eliminated. Instead they
I honestly can't think of one reason to patronize that place anymore. I'm
sure Benny would be rolling over in his grave if he knew how totally screwed
up his casino is now.
I did talk to mgmt. and they stated if enough people complained they would
change things. Of course, that could be a bunch of hooey, but I'll be the
first to put my 2 cents in to see if they can bring back just one ounce of
the old casino's traditions back.

that's what corporations do.

[Mr. V]

Yeah, the Harrahshoe sure seems to have lost the patina of uniqueness
which it once had, and is no longer worth seeking out.

If you want a good game of blackjack, Golden Nugget and Las Vegas Club
have real single deck BJ that pays 3:2, at least so I have just read.

Lots of other joints offer better craps, too.

Damn shame, really.

roll dem bones

[John Harkness]

Post by Mr. V
Yeah, the Harrahshoe sure seems to have lost the patina of uniqueness
which it once had, and is no longer worth seeking out.
If you want a good game of blackjack, Golden Nugget and Las Vegas Club
have real single deck BJ that pays 3:2, at least so I have just read.

The last couple of times I've been in the Nugget, they'd gone to that
6-5 payoff for a natural in their single decks - but their two deck
remains +ev.

John Harkness

[Don Olney (Mr. Don)]

And the yall hit a soft 17. this is crap for a blackjack player

Post by John Harkness

Post by Mr. V
Yeah, the Harrahshoe sure seems to have lost the patina of uniqueness
which it once had, and is no longer worth seeking out.
If you want a good game of blackjack, Golden Nugget and Las Vegas Club
have real single deck BJ that pays 3:2, at least so I have just read.

The last couple of times I've been in the Nugget, they'd gone to that
6-5 payoff for a natural in their single decks - but their two deck
remains +ev.
John Harkness

[medgirl]

Post by John Harkness

Post by Mr. V
Yeah, the Harrahshoe sure seems to have lost the patina of uniqueness
which it once had, and is no longer worth seeking out.
If you want a good game of blackjack, Golden Nugget and Las Vegas Club
have real single deck BJ that pays 3:2, at least so I have just read.

The last couple of times I've been in the Nugget, they'd gone to that
6-5 payoff for a natural in their single decks - but their two deck
remains +ev.

I was there last week and played single deck w/ 3:2 payout at the Nugget
($10 min).

[Alan]

Post by darin
Opened Thursday so I went down for the Grand Opening. For all the post and
press they gave I was expecting something more than was there.
They could not have done a WORSE job eliminating every game that came even
close to making a serious gamer happy. They switched the BJ to shoes, and
what few single decks that are left are the new bogus 6 to 5 BJ payouts that
the whole town has now adopted and the tourists just can't seem to grasp the
lunacy of.
Additionally, craps is min $5 and the line odd's are 3-9 depending on the
bet. It is true that they re-carpeted (like anyone cares?), but it
basically is a patch job of 100 square feet here and there. Beyond that
they did no remodeling except for thinning out games. They did enlarge the
poker room area by about 100 %.
Also, one of the last nice things they used to offer before they closed was
cheap food; primarily the burgers and steak sandwhiches for cheap (which
had a reputation of their own to us Las Vegan's) at the 2 snack bars on
either side of the casino. That has also been eliminated. Instead they
I honestly can't think of one reason to patronize that place anymore. I'm
sure Benny would be rolling over in his grave if he knew how totally screwed
up his casino is now.
I did talk to mgmt. and they stated if enough people complained they would
change things. Of course, that could be a bunch of hooey, but I'll be the
first to put my 2 cents in to see if they can bring back just one ounce of
the old casino's traditions back.

I just got back from Las Vegas last night. I took a walk through
Binions, but didn't put so much as a nickel in any of the machines.
They used to have a lot of single deck BJ, now it's one or two tables,
and 6:5 on a BJ. The double deck BJ still pays 3:2, but it's $10
minimum. A shoe game is $5 minimum. Craps is $5 minimun, 3-4-5x
odds. And I was there during the week, so I'm sure the minimums go up
on the weekend. There are fewer tables, sad since Binions used to be
the place to play tables. My wife and I walked through, and as we
passed by a table, a dealer tried to get us to stop and play, I told
her "Yup, the dealers are still hustling", didn't even slow down as I
got a nasty look from the dealer. There is a single deck game near
the front door, the good news is not one person playing there. While
the 6:5 game may work on the Strip, it doesn't seem to be fooling the
more informed downtown gamblers. In the morning, the place was
practically deserted. The only difference I can see between Binions
now and when Becky Behan ran it is that it took years for Becky to run
the Horseshoe into the ground. The strip has the fancier hotels,
downtown has better gambling conditions, and the 'Shoe now has the
worst of both worlds. Yes, it's cleaner, brighter, and smells better,
but the only resemblance between Binion's Horseshoe and Harrah's
Horseshoe is that it's in the same building.

[Irish Mike]

If you think Harrahs is a tight-fisted outfit that nickel & dimes customers
to death, based on what you saw at the re-opening of the Horseshoe - you
ain't seen nothin' yet. Give those cheap bastards time to really hit their
stride. Based on what I've seen of Harrahs operations, they will gouge a
customer every chance they get and they have absolutely no love for poker or
poker players.

Harrahs plan for the Horseshoe appears to be to offer none of the glitz or
glamour of the strip and none of the good, cheap food or gambling bargains
of Freemont Street - in short; the worst of both worlds.

Irish Mike

Post by Alan

Post by darin
Opened Thursday so I went down for the Grand Opening. For all the post and
press they gave I was expecting something more than was there.
They could not have done a WORSE job eliminating every game that came even
close to making a serious gamer happy. They switched the BJ to shoes, and
what few single decks that are left are the new bogus 6 to 5 BJ payouts that
the whole town has now adopted and the tourists just can't seem to grasp the
lunacy of.
Additionally, craps is min $5 and the line odd's are 3-9 depending on the
bet. It is true that they re-carpeted (like anyone cares?), but it
basically is a patch job of 100 square feet here and there. Beyond that
they did no remodeling except for thinning out games. They did enlarge the
poker room area by about 100 %.
Also, one of the last nice things they used to offer before they closed was
cheap food; primarily the burgers and steak sandwhiches for cheap (which
had a reputation of their own to us Las Vegan's) at the 2 snack bars on
either side of the casino. That has also been eliminated. Instead they
I honestly can't think of one reason to patronize that place anymore.

I'm

Post by Alan

Post by darin
sure Benny would be rolling over in his grave if he knew how totally screwed
up his casino is now.
I did talk to mgmt. and they stated if enough people complained they would
change things. Of course, that could be a bunch of hooey, but I'll be the
first to put my 2 cents in to see if they can bring back just one ounce of
the old casino's traditions back.

I just got back from Las Vegas last night. I took a walk through
Binions, but didn't put so much as a nickel in any of the machines.
They used to have a lot of single deck BJ, now it's one or two tables,
and 6:5 on a BJ. The double deck BJ still pays 3:2, but it's $10
minimum. A shoe game is $5 minimum. Craps is $5 minimun, 3-4-5x
odds. And I was there during the week, so I'm sure the minimums go up
on the weekend. There are fewer tables, sad since Binions used to be
the place to play tables. My wife and I walked through, and as we
passed by a table, a dealer tried to get us to stop and play, I told
her "Yup, the dealers are still hustling", didn't even slow down as I
got a nasty look from the dealer. There is a single deck game near
the front door, the good news is not one person playing there. While
the 6:5 game may work on the Strip, it doesn't seem to be fooling the
more informed downtown gamblers. In the morning, the place was
practically deserted. The only difference I can see between Binions
now and when Becky Behan ran it is that it took years for Becky to run
the Horseshoe into the ground. The strip has the fancier hotels,
downtown has better gambling conditions, and the 'Shoe now has the
worst of both worlds. Yes, it's cleaner, brighter, and smells better,
but the only resemblance between Binion's Horseshoe and Harrah's
Horseshoe is that it's in the same building.

[Mr. V]

Not only does the corporate approach of Harrah's offend seasoned
gambleres, those with "a clue;" Harrah's also is unloved by many of
its employees.

I lurk at a casino dealer site, and the comments there are pretty much
all scathing about Harrahs.

Bad management, bad approach, bad place to work.

"Good food, good whiskey and a good gamble" is now "rope em, rape em,
and release em."

roll dem bones

[Seeker21]

Post by Mr. V
Not only does the corporate approach of Harrah's offend seasoned
gambleres, those with "a clue;" Harrah's also is unloved by many of
its employees.
I lurk at a casino dealer site, and the comments there are pretty much
all scathing about Harrahs.

Are there any chain owners about whom the employees' comments are favorable?


Seeker

[JohnT.]

What are some of these dealers sites? I'd like to lurk there too.

John

[Randy]

They won't change a thing. Owned by the piece of shit Harrah's consortium
now. 1/2 of Vegas is. The other half is owned by the MGM consortium.

Vegas isn't even worth the trip anymore. No cheap food, a waitress that you
might see every hour, and tight ass machines.

Just got back. I know. I won't go back.

Couldn't agree more, Darin. We just got back from 10 days in Vegas and hit
at least 30 different casinos. Out of all of them, Binion's and 4 Aces
across the street where the biggest dumps. Surly dealers at Binion's too.
For me, and I really hate to say this, the only reason to go to Freemont
Street is the Golden Nugget. Man, that place has an energy like no other

in

Vegas.
M.

Post by darin
Opened Thursday so I went down for the Grand Opening. For all the post

and

Post by darin
press they gave I was expecting something more than was there.
They could not have done a WORSE job eliminating every game that came even
close to making a serious gamer happy. They switched the BJ to shoes, and
what few single decks that are left are the new bogus 6 to 5 BJ payouts

that

Post by darin
the whole town has now adopted and the tourists just can't seem to grasp

the

Post by darin
lunacy of.
Additionally, craps is min $5 and the line odd's are 3-9 depending on the
bet. It is true that they re-carpeted (like anyone cares?), but it
basically is a patch job of 100 square feet here and there. Beyond that
they did no remodeling except for thinning out games. They did enlarge

the

Post by darin
poker room area by about 100 %.
Also, one of the last nice things they used to offer before they closed

was

Post by darin
cheap food; primarily the burgers and steak sandwhiches for cheap (which
had a reputation of their own to us Las Vegan's) at the 2 snack bars on
either side of the casino. That has also been eliminated. Instead they
I honestly can't think of one reason to patronize that place anymore.

I'm

Post by darin
sure Benny would be rolling over in his grave if he knew how totally

screwed

Post by darin
up his casino is now.
I did talk to mgmt. and they stated if enough people complained they would
change things. Of course, that could be a bunch of hooey, but I'll be the
first to put my 2 cents in to see if they can bring back just one ounce of
the old casino's traditions back.

[Alex]

Post by Randy
They won't change a thing. Owned by the piece of shit Harrah's consortium
now. 1/2 of Vegas is. The other half is owned by the MGM consortium.
Vegas isn't even worth the trip anymore. No cheap food, a waitress that you
might see every hour, and tight ass machines.
Just got back. I know. I won't go back.

I just got back too.

I won't bother with the Strip anymore (though I did hit the MGM to see
George Carlin).

I played poker and blackjack at the Palace Station and did well. Plenty of
cheap food, lots of cleavage... I mean waitresses, and decent games.

Post by Randy

Couldn't agree more, Darin. We just got back from 10 days in Vegas and hit
at least 30 different casinos. Out of all of them, Binion's and 4 Aces
across the street where the biggest dumps. Surly dealers at Binion's too.
For me, and I really hate to say this, the only reason to go to Freemont
Street is the Golden Nugget. Man, that place has an energy like no other

in

Vegas.
M.

Post by darin
Opened Thursday so I went down for the Grand Opening. For all the post

and

Post by darin
press they gave I was expecting something more than was there.
They could not have done a WORSE job eliminating every game that came

even

Post by darin
close to making a serious gamer happy. They switched the BJ to shoes,

and

Post by darin
what few single decks that are left are the new bogus 6 to 5 BJ payouts

that

Post by darin
the whole town has now adopted and the tourists just can't seem to grasp

the

Post by darin
lunacy of.
Additionally, craps is min $5 and the line odd's are 3-9 depending on

the

Post by darin
bet. It is true that they re-carpeted (like anyone cares?), but it
basically is a patch job of 100 square feet here and there. Beyond that
they did no remodeling except for thinning out games. They did enlarge

the

Post by darin
poker room area by about 100 %.
Also, one of the last nice things they used to offer before they closed

was

Post by darin
cheap food; primarily the burgers and steak sandwhiches for cheap

(which

Post by darin
had a reputation of their own to us Las Vegan's) at the 2 snack bars on
either side of the casino. That has also been eliminated. Instead

they

Post by darin
I honestly can't think of one reason to patronize that place anymore.

I'm

Post by darin
sure Benny would be rolling over in his grave if he knew how totally

screwed

Post by darin
up his casino is now.
I did talk to mgmt. and they stated if enough people complained they

would

Post by darin
change things. Of course, that could be a bunch of hooey, but I'll be

the

Post by darin
first to put my 2 cents in to see if they can bring back just one ounce

of

Post by darin
the old casino's traditions back.

[Oldguy]

Post by Alex

Post by Randy
They won't change a thing. Owned by the piece of shit Harrah's consortium
now. 1/2 of Vegas is. The other half is owned by the MGM consortium.
Vegas isn't even worth the trip anymore. No cheap food, a waitress that you
might see every hour, and tight ass machines.
Just got back. I know. I won't go back.

I just got back too.
I won't bother with the Strip anymore (though I did hit the MGM to see
George Carlin).
I played poker and blackjack at the Palace Station and did well. Plenty of
cheap food, lots of cleavage... I mean waitresses, and decent games.

Post by Randy

Couldn't agree more, Darin. We just got back from 10 days in Vegas and hit
at least 30 different casinos. Out of all of them, Binion's and 4 Aces
across the street where the biggest dumps. Surly dealers at Binion's too.
For me, and I really hate to say this, the only reason to go to Freemont
Street is the Golden Nugget. Man, that place has an energy like no other

in

Vegas.
M.

Post by darin
Opened Thursday so I went down for the Grand Opening. For all the post

and

Post by darin
press they gave I was expecting something more than was there.
They could not have done a WORSE job eliminating every game that came

even

Post by darin
close to making a serious gamer happy. They switched the BJ to shoes,

and

Post by darin
what few single decks that are left are the new bogus 6 to 5 BJ payouts

that

Post by darin
the whole town has now adopted and the tourists just can't seem to grasp

the

Post by darin
lunacy of.
Additionally, craps is min $5 and the line odd's are 3-9 depending on

the

Post by darin
bet. It is true that they re-carpeted (like anyone cares?), but it
basically is a patch job of 100 square feet here and there. Beyond that
they did no remodeling except for thinning out games. They did enlarge

the

Post by darin
poker room area by about 100 %.
Also, one of the last nice things they used to offer before they closed

was

Post by darin
cheap food; primarily the burgers and steak sandwhiches for cheap

(which

Post by darin
had a reputation of their own to us Las Vegan's) at the 2 snack bars on
either side of the casino. That has also been eliminated. Instead

they

Post by darin
I honestly can't think of one reason to patronize that place anymore.

I'm

Post by darin
sure Benny would be rolling over in his grave if he knew how totally

screwed

Post by darin
up his casino is now.
I did talk to mgmt. and they stated if enough people complained they

would

Post by darin
change things. Of course, that could be a bunch of hooey, but I'll be

the

Post by darin
first to put my 2 cents in to see if they can bring back just one ounce

of

Post by darin
the old casino's traditions back.

Amen. Just got back, also. Almost cried when I saw the changes to Binion's.

Golden Nugget is not what it used to be, either. Surly, very unfriendly
dealers and pit crew. Made me feel insulted and like a street person
instead of a 60+ senior.

Fitzgerald's, (I think) is a friendly place although not as "upscale" on
the table games. And the hotel needs a little updating (I heard that
they are re carpeting the rooms). Queens was alright.

Downtown has taken a downturn, for sure.

May just stick to the Indiana riverboats (shudder).

[Bubba]

I am curious about your comment on the Nugget. Havent been there in a
few months but was wondering if there is a change-out going on now
that the new owners have had a chance to settle in. We have always
been treated great there over the past few years and don't travel to
many other places on the strip. Stepped foot in Binions once and never
went back. Those interested in playing a better blackjack game may
want to check out our site at bubbablackjack.com (shameless plug).

--Bubba

Post by Oldguy
Amen. Just got back, also. Almost cried when I saw the changes to Binion's.
Golden Nugget is not what it used to be, either. Surly, very unfriendly
dealers and pit crew. Made me feel insulted and like a street person
instead of a 60+ senior.
Fitzgerald's, (I think) is a friendly place although not as "upscale" on
the table games. And the hotel needs a little updating (I heard that
they are re carpeting the rooms). Queens was alright.
Downtown has taken a downturn, for sure.
May just stick to the Indiana riverboats (shudder).

[j***@cox.net]

Post by Bubba
I am curious about your comment on the Nugget. Havent been there in a
few months but was wondering if there is a change-out going on now
that the new owners have had a chance to settle in. We have always
been treated great there over the past few years and don't travel to
many other places on the strip. Stepped foot in Binions once and never
went back.

I'm curious. What was it about Binions you didn't like?

[Gerd Henjes]

"I'm curious. What was it about Binions you didn't like?"


How about being down now to four craps tables and 3, 4, 5 odds for starters?
There's more tables over at the Nugget now and they're dealing a 6, 8, 10
odds game. With the Nuggest 100 feet away, why would you play at Binion's?

Gerd

[Victoria]

Post by j***@cox.net
I'm curious. What was it about Binions you didn't like?

Guess I will get a bit sarcastic here, but what
in the world could someone on a blackjack board like about Binions or
any Vegas Harrah's property unless it is a free blackjack tournament.
I have never been to their non Vegas properties.

6/5 blackjack and bad shoe rules and how long does it take to go to
the Nugget??
If you were foolish enough to play there you would find out HET is
simply a spelling mistake, should be HEAT. They will give you heat on
an unbeatable game.

The wonderful craps rules have been discussed.
The VP has been downgraded.
When their deal with Ceasar's is complete you might want to visit,
Ceasar's HET wonderful world of slots.

One exception. Though their upper management certainly knows how to
make money; their are certain game control type things that are
available to take advantage of but you must know the when and where.
So there are weak links on the floor, probably the same guys who hawk
the 6/5 game.

If you are a stockholder or employee, nevermind.

Victoria---a fan of Harrah's

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